Curse

Neo Atomisk · May 26, 2009, 02:40 AM // 02:40

I was vanqing Zehlon reach yesterday when a thought occured to me: Zehlon was meant to be the continent of GW:U.
First, it seems to resemble the "Jungles" that would've fit in with the Aztec theme of GW:U.
Second, it could've been a forshadow to GW:U the same way anet forshadowed nf with Elona Reach and Abaddon's mouth.
So, what are your opinions on this? or am i just uninformed of an old topic?

Konig Des Todes · May 26, 2009, 02:47 AM // 02:47

It's possible... I know that there are explorable area descriptions pulled out from the gw.dat file. If one of those mention something hinting to another location, then it's more likely. Of course, it could also just say why it's called that. Or nothing at all.

As far as I know, not an old topic in relation to the name of the Utopia continent. Of course, we can't really call Utopia canon anymore, sadly. That is, until Anet makes it canon.

Edit:
Found the description pulled from the gw.dat:

Zehlon Reach
A settled region of Istan dominated by a shallow arm of the sea reaching southward. Most of its settlement is along the northern coast.

So, no hint of another continent.

Neo Atomisk · May 26, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

But still, if you looked at my logic, it does seem like a logical conclusion.
And if you look at Elona Reach's description:

Quote:

This desolated outpost overlooks the skeletal remains of what might once have been a bustling seaport. Brackish puddles are all that remain of the water that once meant life to fishermen and traders alike. Today, rotted pilings and tattered sailcloth are all that mark this ghost harbor.

You also see no hint of another continent.

draxynnic · May 26, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

However, the Crystal Desert was filled with hints that the Elonians had come from somewhere, built a civilisation aimed at reaching Ascension, and failed. Zehlon Reach, and Istan in general, has no such hints - there are mysterious ruins, but if there are any of those ruins that don't come from the Primeval Kings, there are no references as to who did make them to give the region a name.

Plus, even if we did follow your logic, it would have to be chapter 5 - after all, there was a gap of a chapter between the introduction of Elona Reach and of Elona proper.

Neo Atomisk · May 27, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Plus, even if we did follow your logic, it would have to be chapter 5 - after all, there was a gap of a chapter between the introduction of Elona Reach and of Elona proper.

What I mean is that Zehlon was to be the name for the unreleased campaign, Guild Wars: Utopia. And there are a few hints in nf that lead to Utopia, although I can't specifically recall them.

draxynnic · May 28, 2009, 04:39 AM // 04:39

No, the name for the unreleased campaign was to be Utopia.

I really think you're reaching here (pun not intended). Elona had a lot of setup - not just the name of a single zone, but multiple hints across the Crystal Desert, plus the quest in Kaineng that showed that Elona wasn't just ancient history but a place that still existed... somewhere.

For Zehlon, the only evidence you have is a similarity of names with another that turned out to be prophetic. One example doesn't set a trend (the commonly accepted minimum to set a trend is three), and there are other meanings for the word 'reach' than the commonly known that apply to geography:

Reach (n) 7. The stretch of water visible between bends in a river or channel.

It's not really technically accurate since Zehlon is actually more of a bay than anything, but sometimes places do get called things that aren't technically accurate, and Zehlon might have avoided the label of 'bay' due to Kamadan being the main harbour.

While there are other hints towards Chapter 4 (the guy who wanders around Istan giving cryptic replies if spoken to, for instance), none of them mention the name Zehlon.

Obrien Xp · May 28, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

I am almost certain that Utopia was to be on the western side of Tyria, past the Maguuma. Personally I would love more aztec theme, the asurans aren't a prominent enough part of the game in eotn to really embody it. Gw2 will satisfy me I am sure.

I don't think much foreshadowing was done Utopia-wise. I would also like to see where the idea that Zehlon was to be the Utopian continent, (I may have missed it in the wiki article).

As far as I'm concerned, seeing as nf wasn't even an idea until well after prof (I only came in just after eotn was released) as far as I know. I find it doubtful that the crystal desert had nf hints intended. I think it was the opposite, I think that the crystal desert was the inspiration to make nf.

Konig Des Todes · May 28, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

I don't think much foreshadowing was done Utopia-wise. I would also like to see where the idea that Zehlon was to be the Utopian continent, (I may have missed it in the wiki article).

Look at the first post in this thread. The OP took Elona Reach mission, and Zehlon Reach explorable area.

Quote:

As far as I'm concerned, seeing as nf wasn't even an idea until well after prof (I only came in just after eotn was released) as far as I know. I find it doubtful that the crystal desert had nf hints intended. I think it was the opposite, I think that the crystal desert was the inspiration to make nf.

NF was an idea, more or less. The typical idea was known from Prophecies development, or something like that, according to "The Making of Nightfall" cd from the NF collector's edition. They just refined the game more and more along the way.

The Crystal Desert was, mostly, unchanged. Only change I know of was the Centaur's skin to look like the Elonian skins. Even Palawa Joko and Turai Ossa were mentioned (Turai himself is in Amnoon Oasis, NOTE, he is NOT all of the Ghostly Heroes).

Obrien Xp · May 29, 2009, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Look at the first post in this thread. The OP took Elona Reach mission, and Zehlon Reach explorable area.

NF was an idea, more or less. The typical idea was known from Prophecies development, or something like that, according to "The Making of Nightfall" cd from the NF collector's edition. They just refined the game more and more along the way.

The Crystal Desert was, mostly, unchanged. Only change I know of was the Centaur's skin to look like the Elonian skins. Even Palawa Joko and Turai Ossa were mentioned (Turai himself is in Amnoon Oasis, NOTE, he is NOT all of the Ghostly Heroes).

You must have misunderstood me, I did not hear other than here that the name of the continent was to be Zehlon.

I do not have access to the nf collectors edition stuff so I cannot get that information before its mentioned here.

Anyways, anybody think that after gw2 is going nicely (like after expansion and refining) that Utopia may come back to the drawing board?

Neo Atomisk · May 29, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

turai isnt the ghosly hero? omg my life just got flipturned upside down.
I don't know if it would be a campaign, but it would definitley beba nice eotnlike expansion. i'd love to see utopia, the concept art is my favorite of all campaigns.

draxynnic · May 29, 2009, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

You must have misunderstood me, I did not hear other than here that the name of the continent was to be Zehlon.

I do not have access to the nf collectors edition stuff so I cannot get that information before its mentioned here.

Anyways, anybody think that after gw2 is going nicely (like after expansion and refining) that Utopia may come back to the drawing board?

Most likely. Probably not the original story, but it at least looks like they've done enough work developing the Utopia continent that they'll surely come back to it once they've released the Canthan and Elonian expansions. Possibly even before.

Konig Des Todes · May 29, 2009, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

You must have misunderstood me, I did not hear other than here that the name of the continent was to be Zehlon.

That is because, as I implied, this is currently the only location of that idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

I do not have access to the nf collectors edition stuff so I cannot get that information before its mentioned here.

I understand, but simple information like NF was in the planning long before is found elsewhere as well. Crystal Desert is litterally riddled. Every ghost but one that you see are all Elonians. That one would be a pre-change Margonite (he's in Thirsty River, the "King" ghost you gotta protect).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Anyways, anybody think that after gw2 is going nicely (like after expansion and refining) that Utopia may come back to the drawing board?

No. Anet said they will no longer make campaigns and expansions for GW1.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if new areas get put in with concepts from Utopia. Like a large series of quests that deal with the Utopia storyline, but in Tyria/Cantha/Elona/Mists instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

turai isnt the ghosly hero? omg my life just got flipturned upside down.

There are hundreds of Ghostly heroes, to be honest. For starters, every name that the Tomb of the Primeval Kings greens hold are different Ghostly Heroes. In the Crystal Desert, you see 4. One is Turai Ossa, the other three's names are shown in the Augury Rock mission. Though the new book typo'd and said the ghostly hero in the three missions were the same.

Ghostly heroes in PvP are basically the ghosts that reside within the Hall of Heroes. The Ghostly Priests also reside there. I believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

I don't know if it would be a campaign, but it would definitley beba nice eotnlike expansion. i'd love to see utopia, the concept art is my favorite of all campaigns.

I agree that the concept art is great. And I just have a feeling that the campaign delt with Dhuum for some reason. Probably the concept art people are taking to be Dhuum concept art - which is actually shown in other concept arts holding a flag, so clearly not so x).

But having some Utopia storyline ideas implemented as quests like I said above, would be very nice.

Free Runner · May 29, 2009, 09:20 AM // 09:20

I must be missing something here. How does Zehlon Reach hint at a name for Utopia? it has jungles? most of Istan has jungles. It has reach in its name? i remember someone making a thread before GW2 was announced, wondering if Zehlon Reach was a hint at the 4th campaign purely because it had Reach in it.

But that is not valid - Elona was set up with hints here and there and a fully fledged backstory as to what happened in the Crystal Desert involving the Elonians. Zehlon reach has none of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

The Crystal Desert was, mostly, unchanged. Only change I know of was the Centaur's skin to look like the Elonian skins. Even Palawa Joko and Turai Ossa were mentioned (Turai himself is in Amnoon Oasis, NOTE, he is NOT all of the Ghostly Heroes).

I'm pretty sure Turai is the Ghostly Hero seen in all the missions. He follows and helps the hero so that they can help him get him through the Rift.....

Neo Atomisk · May 29, 2009, 12:35 PM // 12:35

it really would be great if a-net would finish Utopia, if it DID deal with dhuum, we could definitely rap up a few loose ends related to him.

Konig Des Todes · May 29, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I'm pretty sure Turai is the Ghostly Hero seen in all the missions. He follows and helps the hero so that they can help him get him through the Rift.....

There does seem to be a conflict of interest in this kind of thing. For instance, these three ghosts of the same skin talk about each individual mission, supporting that they are the ones in their respective mission. However, the books say that there is one ghostly hero in those missions, Turai Ossa.

So, unless there is an absolute confirmation, it's up to debate still, but favor goes to the later. Although I'd rather lean to the former. But hey, doesn't matter too much.

Gmr Leon · May 30, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I must be missing something here. How does Zehlon Reach hint at a name for Utopia? it has jungles? most of Istan has jungles. It has reach in its name? i remember someone making a thread before GW2 was announced, wondering if Zehlon Reach was a hint at the 4th campaign purely because it had Reach in it.

But that is not valid - Elona was set up with hints here and there and a fully fledged backstory as to what happened in the Crystal Desert involving the Elonians. Zehlon reach has none of that.

It is possible that Bahltek's cryptic messages were intended as hints towards Utopia, as well as Zehlon Reach. Note that the architecture in a certain region of Zehlon Reach, at least the heads, are seen nowhere else on Istan or the rest of Elona for that matter. Not to mention that water being powerful could also have been a hint, not only at magic, as one would think given the Scrying Pool, but also at steam power. After all, Utopia was to have mechanical constructs from what I recall, and one of their cities, which happened to look like giant gears, seemed as though it may have been mechanically inclined, and likely driven by steam.

Not only that, but the ghost ship that Bahltek mentions in Zehlon Reach and the disappearing island, could have been hints. The Chronomancer was to be released with Utopia, after all, and if they were experimenting with temporal magic, then they could have accidentally displaced themselves in space in their experimentation with time, assuming that space and time are intertwined in Tyria as they are in our universe. The ghost ship may have simply been a ship that was in the past, and is no longer existent in the present, that had its appearance repeated or stretched throughout time due to the temporal distortions from the experimentation done by the civilization in Utopia that may have occupied Zehlon Reach, for however brief a period of time.

So..Am I just crazy, or am I stretching the details we have on the table?

Konig Des Todes · May 30, 2009, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

So..Am I just crazy, or am I stretching the details we have on the table?

Both

I was actually thinking of bringing up the ghost ship and chronomancer thing as you said, though wouldn't go into as much depth, when Bahltek was brought up earlier. But I refrained because I thought it would add meaningless speculation.

Free Runner · May 30, 2009, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Wasnt Bahltek brought in near the end of 2006? which was pretty much when Utopia had been scrapped? eh i'm not sure. I did think of Bahltek but i thought he moved around istan and commented on different things. And i always figured his dialogue still means something due to hints by some of the devs.

Edit: He actually appeared around January 2007 which was just before the GW2 announcement and if Anet are telling the truth, long after Utopias end. So i doubt he was a Utopia hint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

There does seem to be a conflict of interest in this kind of thing. For instance, these three ghosts of the same skin talk about each individual mission, supporting that they are the ones in their respective mission. However, the books say that there is one ghostly hero in those missions, Turai Ossa.

Those three ghosts stay there. And afterall each one has a unique name. The Ghostly Hero actually talks about his people the Elonians failing the task the mission requires, in the same way Turei does in the Oasis. Plus hes always talking about wanting to pass through the Rift. So i thought that he was the same Ghostly Hero all over the place in the desert and that he followed and helped us to achieve his goal of getting to the Hall of Heroes.

Of course the Hall of Heroes has multiple Ghostly Heroes - i remember the Ghostly Hero mentioning a second one who he had been fighting prior to the Tombs invasion.

MBTW · Jun 02, 2009, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Couldn't Utopia be in a future or past setting, and the only way to get there is use chronomancy.Kinda like the Asura gate?

Konig Des Todes · Jun 02, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

I find that highly unlikely, and much more likely to be a "highly advanced civilization."